It’s Just the Way We Do Things

Prior to leaving for Việt Nam last autumn, I read every book about Vietnamese culture I could get my hands on.  I learned that when one is invited to dinner in the northern areas of Việt Nam, it is polite to be exquisitely thankful, but nonetheless decline.  However, in the south, it is perfectly okay to accept.  The book said that the north has never been as agriculturally productive as the south, and food used to be hard to come by, and the unspoken social requirement was to decline the invitation to a meal even though there is plenty of food today.  I muttered something to myself about the difficulty of remembering all that.  Fortunately, we had only one invitation to eat at someone else’s home in Hué last spring, and I knew her invitation was sincere.  (Thanx, Oanh.  Only the conversation was better than the food.)

Today, I was listening to C going through our peculiar, yet similar, American protocol.  We’ve had numerous invitations for dinner this summer, so C is quite knowledgeable  with the customs.  The phone conversation goes something like this:

“Oh, hi, Becky!  It sure was good to see you Sunday at church.”

Unintelligible voice over the phone.

“We’d love to join you for dinner on Tuesday night.”  (Now comes the important part.)  “What can I bring?”

Now, C knows darn well the hostess is going to say something like “Oh, just bring yourselves and your appetite” or “Not a thing – I’ve got everything we need”  or “Thanx, C, but we’re just so delighted to have you over that I don’t want you to bring a thing.”

But - - the ritual is  not over, and C knows it.  You see, it is not enough to offer to  bring something once – you have to sound insistent.  So after another short bit of conversation, C says”  “Now, Becky– are you sure I can’t bring something?  How about a salad or dessert.”  Of course, the expected response is “Goodness no, Cindy.  I’m just fine.  We’ll see you Tuesday night.”

And I thought Vietnamese social relationships were complex.

Comments

[Margaret]

Ahhh, the northern/southern divide! My family is from Southern Vietnam, and they have all sorts of stereotypes about Northern Vietnamese. (Likewise, Northern Vietnamese have their own criticisms and stereotypes of Southern Vietnamese.) My mom used to tell this joke about a Northern Vietnamese family who had a fish carved out of wood that they would place on a plate on the dinner table--just to look at while they ate rice with fish sauce.

Bad stereotypes of northerners: proud, cheap, insincere, calculating
Good stereotypes of northerners: resourceful, tough, wily, good long-term planners and savers

Bad stereotypes of southerners: unrefined and coarse (in speech and in education), mercenary, indulgent and short-sighted in the "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die" sense
Good stereotypes of southerners: indulgent in a fun way, generous, sincere, down-to-earth

[Robert]

I think today most of the books on Viet nam are out-of-date even those wrote a few years ago. Viet nam is changing fast more so in the northern provinces, Internet alone has made a big impact on Viet nam and so has the outlook for foriegn investment, United States is looking more and more friendlier because of business and money that can help make Viet Nam an strong country. Because of this outlook, customs have started to fall to the wayside as more and more younger people are taking in the culture of other countries including America.
Just to show affection in public is still frown up but more and more are kissing and hlding hand in public. considering that half the population is under 30 show how much modern influnce will make a big difference on the culture as a whole. Unfornately may good custom will fade away.

Robert

[Christina]

I'm a 15 year old girl who's lucky enough to not only have been born in America but also live here amongst the middle class American's in a nice house complete with air conditioning, so I can't say I know anything about the differences between the northerners and southerners. Mostly what I've heard is through my parents and my humbling two month visit to the country of my heritage. My biological father is from the north, and I remember he would make jokes at my mom - but I can't remember what they were because it was so long ago. My mom is from the south and she constantly makes jokes about the northerners and although she's biased she won't hold it against anyone. She tells me the northerners are self centered, cheap and stingy, tough critics, and willing to backstab to get ahead. Whether or not I believe this I can't say myself - my father's side of the family is (excuse my blunt and vulgar language) a pain in the ass and I hope someone knocks some sense into them (literally). But I don't feel I have the right to judge northerners on just the behavior of my father's side - some of their characteristics I find on my mother's side as well.

[Buddhist with an attitude]

Yes, there are stereotypes and prejudices about both North and South Vietnamese (and even about Central Vietnamese) and even though one cannot generalize, the thing to remember is that the South is the richest and most fertile part of the country, which explains their reputation for being more easygoing, carefree, generous and less hungup on money than the rest of the country. An invitation by a Southerner is normally always sincerely extended without any expectation of a return invitation and should be freely accepted. A Southerner would not normally invite you to his home if he doesn't like you (unless it's a social obligation). In general, with Vietnamese from the South, what you see is what you get: there are no convoluted posturing or hidden agendas beneath exquisite politeness in their social interactions. Some call them «coarse», I call them «freshingly candid». As you can guess, I'm from the South.

["Doc" Bovie]

As per the differences between north and south, has this been for a long time historically? Or is this a result of the division of the 2 areas after world war 2?

[Hoang]

I am very much in agreement with Margaret about the North/South stereotypes. I do remember my family conversation about it growing up. And I do know about it because my father's family is from Central Vietnam while my mother's family is from the North and settled in the South when the country was divided into two. Interestingly enough, my mother's family adopted many good Southern customs while using their own knowledge about Northern customs when dealing with Northern people. I remembered when my parents kept making excuses for not being able to attend a dinner invited by Northeners while I was being a kid wanting to stay for dinner because it was fun to play with other kids. Also my mom kept telling me to mind my manner and not eating too much or in earnest at these invited dinners. She called it "social eating" or "an choi". No wonder that people are always hungry after these dinners and have to go home to eat a real meal. I do not think that these customs will be around. It was born out of poverty and hard conditions in the North. However, stinginess, selfish, and calculating are steorotypes that are hard to get rid of. It is always perceived like that with my family when we talk about Northerners. The only steorotype about Southerners that my family kept talking about as an example to teach us kids an idea was frugality. We have Southern relatives and my parents point out to us that if we do not save and spend wisely we will be ended up like our lavishly spending but broke Southern relatives.

[Hang]

Well, its interesting to read different views on Northerners and Southerners in VN.
As some of you already discussed, the difference in each stereotype is explained by the situation and history of each. And that build up diversity and enrich culture of the country which once you visit you will never forget.